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OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

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smfrank

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Re: OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

PostTue Nov 01, 2022 7:06 am

giwro wrote:There are 2 or 3 organs in the development queue before it

In the middle of the night it occurred to me that you didn't mention what the other 2 or 3 were. Might you share?
Steve
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giwro

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Re: OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

PostTue Nov 01, 2022 1:11 pm

smfrank wrote:
giwro wrote:There are 2 or 3 organs in the development queue before it

In the middle of the night it occurred to me that you didn't mention what the other 2 or 3 were. Might you share?
Steve


Hahaha.

We don’t usually, no.

One is a new release, a significant instrument in Virginia (even featured on some Naxos recordings):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bk2mn_ ... p=drivesdk

We are also working on another complete re-do of one of our current sets… completely new NR and inclusion of a second perspective which was recorded but never utilized.

Finally, a major historic release - the 1877 Johnson organ at Our Lady of Good Counsel in Mankato, MN. The convent is closing due to rapidly declining numbers of sisters in the order. We were able to get in and record it in all of its full 5-6 sec reverb glory… 8 channels (if we should choose to use them all)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hJwJV6 ... p=drivesdk

That’s as much as I can give you right now. We’ve been busy…. :mrgreen:
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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larason2

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Re: OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

PostTue Nov 01, 2022 4:26 pm

Ooh, you can basically count on my purchase of the OLGC Mankato. Such a good disposition and a great acoustic! It also has a Keraulophone! (It is one of my dreams to get an organ with one). It's also a pretty complete disposition. What a shame the church is closing down! Here's the database entry:

https://pipeorgandatabase.org/organ/6671

Lots of good things in the future from Evensong!
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giwro

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Re: OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

PostTue Nov 01, 2022 9:09 pm

larason2 wrote:Ooh, you can basically count on my purchase of the OLGC Mankato. Such a good disposition and a great acoustic! It also has a Keraulophone! (It is one of my dreams to get an organ with one). It's also a pretty complete disposition. What a shame the church is closing down! Here's the database entry:

https://pipeorgandatabase.org/organ/6671

Lots of good things in the future from Evensong!


Thanks for your enthusiasm...

You have no idea - we've been negotiating, recording, editing....

We'd get them out faster, but I have a "real" job FT, too <chuckle>

There are some even more exciting things on the horizon that we can't share until we get the signed contracts... some of them (and even two of our current projects) are the result of years of patient and persistent negotiation.

Just a slight correction - OLGC is not closing the church, it's the entire CONVENT that is closing at that site. The sisters are amazing, wonderful, spiritual folks, and I'm sad for them. I hope that preserving the sound of the organ in that room is something that gives them hope, and that they realize their lives have significance.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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mnailor

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Re: OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

PostFri Nov 04, 2022 12:15 pm

In the meantime, while "patiently waiting" for a better Skinner, I started listening to my old CDs of Girard, Stambaugh, and a few other Skinners to see if it was possible to get close to some of the sounds with the samplesets I have: Immanuel, San Francisco, Mt. Carmel Wet, and Glendale.

I'm mostly concerned with hearing an authentic big Skinner ensemble that I feel is missing, not signature stops. So Glendale is out of this exercise simply by being too small. Mt. Carmel Wet is out because of the single releases, and truncating them to add convolution reverb isn't very satisfactory to me.

On the CDs, I'm reminded of these attributes I used to love hearing on Skinner recordings:

1. Warm, strong, blended Diapasons -- not hard, biting, and completely disconnected from other flue families.
2. Shining upperwork -- not gritty and brittle.
3. Smooth chorus reeds -- not twisted-sounding Trumpets and Clarions that try to curse out the flue plenum.

Of course, I'm not the guy who sits near the organ in recitals -- it hurts my ears -- so I expect the room response to be very involved in the sound. Much the same perspective as the CDs I have.

So, can I get a sampleset to imitate that somewhat? The first thing to change is that the CDs are *never* as close to the organ as Direct/Dry and possibly even the Diffuse/Ambient positions in the samplesets.

In fact, the CDs are mixed to sound somewhere between the Diffuse and Rear-facing mic positions.

I tried the following experiment with San Francisco after some trial-and-error:

A. Route the Rear and Diffuse ranks to my front speaker groups.
B. Route the Direct (Dry) ranks to my rear + reverb speaker groups, using rear-facing IRs from St. Maximin, about 6 seconds.
C. Set sliders to Direct 16, Diffuse 64, Rear 127.

I also omitted the Great reeds, because their "oi" sound doesn't blend, and coupled the Solo Tuba, which is enclosed and blends pretty well, at 8 and 16 for full organ only. I also eliminated stops that weren't nominally in the original Skinner such as the Great Breaking Glass Mixture.

The result of letting the Rear mic position dominate is a surprisingly CD-like ensemble, if nowhere near perfect. I guess if you get far enough away from a brutally ugly-sounding organ up close, it can blend into something good...

I'm going to try this backwards approach with Immanuel if raising the levels on the Rear ranks turns out to sound okay. As shipped, the Rear perspective is comparatively too quiet to tell what it really sounds like. Of course, the Direct and Ambient perspectives of Immanuel already blend better than the corresponding perspectives of San Francisco. Different rooms, different organs.

So, trying to make use of what's available while we wait!

Edit: Quick test done on Immanuel. Ambient perspective alone has a nice dark sound that works for my front speakers. Rear perspective doesn't help to me, being thinner and not much more reverb, so I turned that ("Diff") slider off. The same rear approach as for San Francisco, Direct ranks with releases truncated routed to rear speakers with added reverb at about 40 - 50% volume on the slider gives me a plausible ensemble. More tweaking to do on both.
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voet

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Re: OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

PostFri Nov 04, 2022 4:29 pm

mnailor wrote:...while "patiently waiting" for a better Skinner, I started listening to my old CDs of Girard, Stambaugh, and a few other Skinners to see if it was possible to get close to some of the sounds with the samplesets I have...

I applaud your effort and generally agree with your assessment of Mt. Carmel and Glendale. I do not own San Francisco, so I cannot speak to that instrument.

Of the three Skinner sets I own, Immanuel is the only one I play. However, it has had a number tonal changes over the years. Some of the changes are detailed here: https://hauptwerk-organ.com/ipla/ Sufficient alteration was made by G. Donald Harrison in 1949 that it is listed as Aeolian-Skinner Opus A-549. While it is commendable to try to "put the genie back in the bottle" by adding stops from other instruments that were removed, it cannot be said to be origninal. The net result is that, while there is a lot of E. M. Skinner there, it is an altered instrument.

So, mnailor, I too am "patiently waiting" for a better Skinner.
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Re: OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

PostFri Jan 13, 2023 4:35 pm

giwro wrote:Yes, I’m not teasing, we are sampling it. There are 2 or 3 organs in the development queue before it, and we’ve only completed recording on the GT and most of the pedal… it will likely take another 4-5 8-hour sessions.

Using this hijacked thread about Northrop.
Sad news this week about the roof.
Have you finished yet? This could slow things down!
Steve
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giwro

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Re: OLMC Skinner V2 - patiently waiting

PostFri Jan 13, 2023 5:08 pm

smfrank wrote:
giwro wrote:Yes, I’m not teasing, we are sampling it. There are 2 or 3 organs in the development queue before it, and we’ve only completed recording on the GT and most of the pedal… it will likely take another 4-5 8-hour sessions.

Using this hijacked thread about Northrop.
Sad news this week about the roof.
Have you finished yet? This could slow things down!
Steve


We have probably sessions left, scheduled for 2 of them in early Feb.
So far, the damage doesn’t impact the recording unless there are repairs going on, it’s at the complete opposite end of the venue. Obviously, one wouldn’t want to record while construction is taking place due to noise issues. I’ve been in communication with the powers that be, and so far they have said my appointment can stay on the books.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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