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Bovenkerk Hinsz Afsluiting Question

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
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micdev

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PostFri Oct 24, 2008 8:25 am

Oups, sorry Chris, my mistake, you're the only who own the idea.... if you need me as a witness for the trial, let me know, I will be please to explain to the judge that when I don't have my 2 coffees in the morning, I'm all "mix-up"!

Btw, where are getting pretty far away from the topic of this thread and the last question about the Afsluiting was from Rob "Am I a bit slow? I can't see the point of the Afsluiting knobs"....

So what's the point!
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gingercat

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PostFri Oct 24, 2008 8:31 am

Aye, sorry for the OT conversations!

I guess they are ultimately there for realism - they're on the real organ, and the Hauptwerk sample set aims to mirror that organ as fully as possible.

I for one have great pleasure demonstrating how great Hauptwerk and its wind model are by turning off the blower on my Skinner sample set whilst playing. I gess the Afsluiting won't have the same effect, probably more instantaneous, and actually, I'm surprised I haven't tried them yet!
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Chris Blaylock
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4 Manual Console, 32 R&C Pedalboard, 3xExpression, Solenoid coupler tabs
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BarryG

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PostFri Oct 24, 2008 10:16 am

Wow! Was surprised to see 16 responses listed to my question before I found most are related to the related question of the wind model (or lack thereof) here in the US.

So, for my further education, the Afsluitings would be useful for quickly setting/unsetting of stops for one manual that is coupled to another, thereby quickly changing the stops being played by the coupled manual? Similar to the Combinations in the Metz that open/close the reed stops set at the time?

Barry Gerken
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telemanr

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PostFri Oct 24, 2008 9:06 pm

BarryG wrote:So, for my further education, the Afsluitings would be useful for quickly setting/unsetting of stops for one manual that is coupled to another, thereby quickly changing the stops being played by the coupled manual? Similar to the Combinations in the Metz that open/close the reed stops set at the time?

Barry Gerken


But wouldn't coupling and uncoupling do the same thing? A coupler is just one knob too.
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jb

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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 12:46 am

The afsluiting are not used for that. I do not really know what their historical use is, but I can imagine that in the days without an electric windmotor they where used to diminish the amount of wind needed (when not playing/using a certain manual), and so diminish the amount of humans needed to produce the wind. For an organ of this size several 'orgeltrappers' or 'kalkanten' where needed. Maybe I am wrong, I will ask around, but to me it seems that in some way it must be related to 'human windmotors'.
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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 3:01 am

Hi all,

JB, your thought is making sense to me. I have heard this explanation before.
And by the way, it is still a great plaesure to play this set...thanks Brett.
Fokko Horst
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imcg110

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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 5:09 am

It also could allow you to isolate a faulty division still using the rest of the organ whilst awaiting repair. I am not sure what response times were before telephones and BMW's.
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gingercat

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Wind model bug?

PostSat Oct 25, 2008 5:38 am

I had a play with the afsluiting on my Hintz and I think there is some sort of bug with them. If you are hold a chord, then disengage the afsluiting, the audio sometimes immediately clips to 0, sometimes to a lower level, with no reverb tails. If you then re-engage it, the audio cuts back in again immediately, with no ramp up / gradual attack. With it off, playing chords repeatedly yields very random results, sometimes no sound, sometimes a "low pressure" sound. It suggests the wind model isn't being applied correctly somehow. (I have the wind model set to 70% for this set if that makes any difference)
Regards,
Chris Blaylock
i5 4670k, 32GB RAM, Win7, 2xELO 1280x1024 Touchscreens, Focusrite Saffire, MIDISport 4x4
4 Manual Console, 32 R&C Pedalboard, 3xExpression, Solenoid coupler tabs
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B. Milan

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PostSun Oct 26, 2008 12:51 pm

Hello Chris,

There isn't really any reason that you should need to turn those on and off since the design was not meant for that. We probably should have just left them on without the means to control them (will probably do so for the next volume). Please remember this is a model and things such as these are not really meant to be as accurate as a real organ.

Is there any performance reason that you need to turn these off? All they do is to shut off wind from those divisions in Hauptwerk, there isn't a bug as such, it is probably just depending on how the wind system is reacting at the time of shutting them down since they wind model can vary in its state during the switching of one bellow to another. Therefore you may get different results when shutting these off.

In general I would simply recommend not touching them (as on the real organ, put some virtual wedges in there)! since I really don't see what the purpose would be other than for curiosity.
Brett Milan
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gingercat

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PostMon Oct 27, 2008 3:44 am

Hi Brett,

Whilst I do agree they have no practical purpose in a simulated organ, I would however argue that if the user has the ability to control them, they should work! There is definitely a bug in the way they do work as regardless of the wind model, cutting off the wind to a windchest should still result in reverb for the already sounding pipes. The best bet is probably to hard code them to enabled.

Regards,
Chris.
Regards,
Chris Blaylock
i5 4670k, 32GB RAM, Win7, 2xELO 1280x1024 Touchscreens, Focusrite Saffire, MIDISport 4x4
4 Manual Console, 32 R&C Pedalboard, 3xExpression, Solenoid coupler tabs
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vidarf

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Re:

PostSun May 09, 2010 3:37 pm

B. Milan wrote:Hello Barry,

The Afsluiting knobs are connected directly to the windchests, so they will have no effect on those people not using the wind model. To answer your question, yes they will shut off wind to the respective division only when used in conjunction with the wind model being activated. These always default to on so you will have wind upon loading the organ. On the real organ there are actally wedges placed between the stop shaft and the opening to prevent them from being pushed in.


But why doesn't the afsluiting knobs work on my volume II extended edition? I have the wind model activated.
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phulshof

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Re: Bovenkerk Hinsz Afsluiting Question

PostMon May 10, 2010 12:31 am

Considering that wind supply is limited, certainly back in the old days, I could imagine those afsluitings being used to give more wind to the pipes that were not closed off.
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B. Milan

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Re: Re:

PostMon May 10, 2010 12:45 am

vidarf wrote:
B. Milan wrote:Hello Barry,

The Afsluiting knobs are connected directly to the windchests, so they will have no effect on those people not using the wind model. To answer your question, yes they will shut off wind to the respective division only when used in conjunction with the wind model being activated. These always default to on so you will have wind upon loading the organ. On the real organ there are actally wedges placed between the stop shaft and the opening to prevent them from being pushed in.


But why doesn't the afsluiting knobs work on my volume II extended edition? I have the wind model activated.


Hello Vidarf,

See Chris's post above yours. We disabled these for volume 2 since they were not useful nor are they normally used in real practice. We did enable one of them again for for the Bovenwerk manuals in volume 3. Here is the bit of information from the volume 3 user guide pertaining to these:

Afsluiters
The afsluiters will decouple a division so that stops may be drawn without sound being produced when the keys are played. The real instrument has wedges placed in all Aflsuiter stops except for the Bovenwerk which we have simulated in the virtual instrument. By disengaging the Bovenwerk Aflsuiter you may play only the Bovenwerk 2 stops while setting stops on the Bovenwerk 1 division with the Bovenwerk 2e coupler engaged (which defaults to off).
Brett Milan
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MILAN DIGITAL AUDIO
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