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Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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mnailor

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Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostSat Dec 19, 2020 11:55 am

I have HW 6.0.1 sending 16 output channels to a 24Ao, which adds mixes for a subwoofer and headphones for 20 analog outputs. Works great at 48kHz sample rate. (I retired my RME UFX to be a backup. Simplifying in retirement.)

When I change HW to 96kHz in General settings | Audio device and channels, the 24Ao display changes to 96k. But only a few channels play instead of all of them.

Since I'm not using ADAT, I didn't think 96k would reduce the number of channels, and the routing tab and mixing tab on the 24Ao don't seem to have changed configurations.

I can't find anything in the MOTU or HW manuals or forums to explain this. Any ideas about what I missed?

Thank you.
Last edited by mnailor on Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostSat Dec 19, 2020 12:16 pm

*** edits after resolution ***

Okay, there is a difference. At 96k, there are only 2 group mixes instead of 3, and only 3 aux mixes instead of 7, and I'm using 8 of the 10 so the mixing tab shows output levels on all my inputs. These are all stereo mixes in case you were counting.

I guess reducing group + aux buses from 10 to 5 in 96k mode makes sense for capacity, but I didn't find that in MOTU's user guide.

I'll try sending all my inputs directly to outputs and mixer inputs for the main mix, which the monitor mix follows, and see if it works. *** Yes, this worked at 96k. My use of group and aux mixes was unnecessary. ***

I'll miss the audio level displays for inputs that I got by sending each pair through its own mix, but there aren't enough mix buses at 96k to do that even with borrowing the reverb bus. *** This is incorrect. The mix inputs do show levels on the mixer tab. My bad. ***
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engrssc

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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostTue Dec 22, 2020 1:01 pm

Did you notice any improvement in the audio quality when going to 96K?

Rgds,
Ed
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mnailor

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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostTue Dec 22, 2020 2:16 pm

Not really, but I did notice a big improvement when I enabled higher definition pitch shifting. After that, 96k sounds similar to 48k to me. My high frequency hearing isn't great.
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostSat Jan 23, 2021 5:55 pm

Just a followup. I went back to 48kHz a few days later because I experienced a very loud Bang-zzzzzt from my speakers a few seconds after playing Brasov with 32 ft stops on.

Pretty sure this is a known problem Martin is trying to solve for the next release.

I didn't experiment with 96k further because I hate loud noises. Took me a week to play the organ again...
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micdev

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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostSat Jan 23, 2021 8:42 pm

Pretty sure this is a known problem Martin is trying to solve for the next release.


It is a known problem - see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19316&p=145811

You may want to disable Harmonic shaping in Organ settings | Organ preferences | Audio engine ... but it may/will affect the overall sound of the organ.
Best regards
François

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Worldwide technical assistance, consultation and ready to play system.

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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostSun Jan 24, 2021 4:50 am

Hello Mark,

Yes -- to add to Francois' reply, if you have that problem with any deep bass pipes at 96 kHz, pending v6.0.2, you can avoid it by either of the three work-arounds I listed in that topic:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19316&start=15#p145095

mdyde wrote:a) Simplest: stick to using 48 kHz for now. Or:

b) If using 96 kHz, for affected sample sets, via the 'Organ settings | Organ preferences | Audio engine' screen tab, tick 'Disable harmonic-shaping filters'. (However, then the wind model and modelled tremulants will sound less realistic for all of the pipes, and brightness voicing controls will no longer work). Or:

c) If using 96 kHz, via the voicing screen, for any affected pipes lower than about 8' C (e.g. for the bottom octave on 16' ranks, or the bottom two octaves on 32' ranks), turn:

- 'All perspectives: wind supply mod: brightness (pct)' down to zero.
- 'All perspectives: tremulant mod: brightness (pct)' down to zero.

My apologies that the issue didn't get spotted during development or testing. (It turns out that it can actually also occur at 48 kHz, e.g. also in Hauptwerk v2-v5, but it's then only potentially applicable for pipes below 16' C, and thus unlikely to be an issue in practice at 48 kHz.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostSun Jan 24, 2021 1:21 pm

Thanks, but I'm fine waiting for the next version, whenever that comes.
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostWed Mar 03, 2021 10:10 am

Hi, thanks a lot for this feed.

I've just upgraded to HW6.0.2 and I'm running through the same issue: once at 96 kHz, only one out of four channels seems to work properly.
Unfortunately, I could not follow what you did to resolve the issue.

Would you mind describing step by step what should be done in order to resolve the issue?

Thanks a lot!
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostWed Mar 03, 2021 11:09 am

I’ve been using 96k sample rate on my 24ao with no problems. Other than changing the sample rate on the 24ao, I made no changes to the configuration. However, I use the 24AO in a very simple way: i route each DAW output to a 24ao output. I don’t use any of the 24ao’s mixing or effects functions and instead do this in Hauptwerk. I use 16 channels in my set up.

I think other items in this thread mention a reduction in the number of group mixes which worked when using the higher sample rate.

Iain
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostWed Mar 03, 2021 12:18 pm

jean.lemoine wrote:Hi, thanks a lot for this feed.

I've just upgraded to HW6.0.2 and I'm running through the same issue: once at 96 kHz, only one out of four channels seems to work properly.
Unfortunately, I could not follow what you did to resolve the issue.

Would you mind describing step by step what should be done in order to resolve the issue?

Thanks a lot!


If you are using the 24Ao mixer's group and/or aux buses, the 96kHz sample rate cuts the number of those buses in half, so you have very few available. I really only needed one mix of all channels for the subwoofer and headphones, so I used the Main mix and stopped routing any inputs through group and aux buses. Now all my software inputs from Hauptwerk go to mixer inputs, then to the Main mix. This works exactly the same at 48 and 96kHz.

Any mixing you can do in the 24Ao mixer can be done in Hauptwerk 5/6 now, so there's no need for aux or group mixes unless you're sending HW outputs through some less flexible software package.
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostWed Mar 03, 2021 12:20 pm

mnailor wrote:Thanks, but I'm fine waiting for the next version, whenever that comes.


I did install 6.0.2 and 96kHz does sound better. Thanks, Martin!
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostWed Mar 03, 2021 12:22 pm

Thanks, Mark. Excellent!
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostThu Mar 04, 2021 10:49 am

mnailor wrote:If you are using the 24Ao mixer's group and/or aux buses, [...]


Well in fact no. I only configure HW outputs to the sound card's output. That's all.
I must admit that I was proud having managed to use HW5 with my four-channel surround setup but now I'm lost again with how audio routing works in HW.

Maybe should I open a thread for my particular question. Thank you anyway!
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Re: Using 96k sample rate on MOTU 24Ao -- resolved

PostThu Mar 04, 2021 12:09 pm

jean.lemoine wrote:
mnailor wrote:If you are using the 24Ao mixer's group and/or aux buses, [...]


Well in fact no. I only configure HW outputs to the sound card's output. That's all.
I must admit that I was proud having managed to use HW5 with my four-channel surround setup but now I'm lost again with how audio routing works in HW.

Maybe should I open a thread for my particular question. Thank you anyway!


I misunderstood. Because this thread was about the 24Ao, I answered assuming you had a 24Ao, but I see from your new thread that you have an unrelated audio interface...

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