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Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

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dw154515

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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostTue Jan 26, 2021 8:45 pm

I’m glad you find that thread helpful. When I started it, I was mostly stumbling around in the dark, and the good folks here on the forum helped me navigate the endless possibilities that Hauptwerk affords us. After the thread started to develope, I realized that it was becoming the very thing that I myself wished already existed to aid me in my early days of “figuring it out.” Much like writing a good story or piece of music, it’s the “where do I even begin” - that first step - that’s seemingly the hardest, because you’re afraid it might be “wrong.”

That said, I think you’re on the right path. One of the many beauties of Hauptwerk is that it’s NEVER “finished.” There’s always something that you’ll want to improve or modify. It’s an addiction, really, that all of us can absolutely attest to. We all started out oblivious (to some degree) of what we were getting into, and a bit curious, and with each gradual success, we became more and more addicted. You undoubtedly will as well. That’s the way of addiction.

You can always add, change, modify, rework, revolve.... that’s the beauty of it. That’s the “living” element of Hauptwerk. That’s the part that is both invigorating but also challenging. If you’re looking for “out of the box,” Hauptwerk isn’t for you, but if you can’t stand the idea of being handed an “organ out of a box,” then Hauptwerk IS for you.

Where are you located (just curious) and who is your builder?

The routing layout you propose seems perfectly logical to me. Still, though, there’s no greater teacher than experimentation. One of the most important things to keep in mind, is that sound and “quality” are entirely subjective. What one person here says, may completely contradict what YOU hear and observe. There are general guidelines, yes, and you seem to have a grasp on those. So now, experiment. Come up with 2-3 routing setups - inevitably, you’ll find pros and cons to all of them - but one will likely stick.

What Danny suggested about mapping them in Excel, is exactly what I did. It forced me to really THINK through how to make the most of it, while sitting at home away from the instrument, instead of getting excited/impatient and just routing things at random just to get things going so I could make some noise (which is all too tempting!), so come up with a couple.

I have Leo’s layout/routing file somewhere. I can send it to you if you don’t already have it. It’s a godsend.

And as for the wet/dry debate....

I have a relatively dry quintessentially American wooden A-frame sanctuary. Not a lot of reverb. So, having some wetness in the samples really helps liven things up a bit, but when playing with other musicians/instruments, their natural reverb with the organ samples built-in acoustic, it’s quite noticeable. Now, playing solo, and with your eyes closed, you suddenly couldn’t care less - the sound is awesome, transportive really! So, wet has its place. If you have a wet sanctuary, I’d advise against adding any more
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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magnaton

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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostWed Jan 27, 2021 3:19 pm

Okay, I heard my name mentioned too.

Here are a few more thoughts I'd like to share. Using identical near field monitors that you specified will offer a cohesive sound. This means they will blend very well together and at a certain distance away, you won't be able to distinguish which units are actually speaking. For 24 channels, I assume you are using the MOTU 24ao unit? If so it has active bar graphs on the front so you can see which channels are active.

With your proposed design looks to be a good start. As Drew suggests have a couple other designs worked out on paper or even setup in separate Alt-Configs so you can switch for comparison. Assembling a fresh 22 channel Hauptwerk instrument is indeed exciting and in the beginning, finding the right sound is akin to going to a music or electronic store to audition speakers . . . wow they all sound great :? From my experience, the ear can become sophisticated pretty quick. In your case (I'm guessing this is your home church) you'll have a lot more time for adjustments and routing auditions. Sometimes moving to another routing config will offer a different sound but may not necessarily sound better. Perform another round of listening from down in the pews.

Most sample sets are recorded in stereo. When playing individual notes on a single rank, you may notice that for many pipes, the L or R channel is a bit louder. Many factors as to why this is but the end result is a stereophonic sound stage. By going Mono, Hauptwerk will automatically choose the loudest channel in the stereo pair to be that mono note. I mention this in case you have been working with Hauptwerk stereo samples in your home or elsewhere as mono will have a different feel. Here is a somewhat related story I will share:
Awhile back, I was asked to go hear a large theatre organ install. The organists and hobbyist had about 6 stereo pairs lined up on 9ft tall utility shelves. They were using a high-end stereo gaming card in the computer. So the same stereo channels duplicated 5 times. Fortunately it was a very large room (use to be a neighborhood hardware store) with high ceilings and the sound was acceptable but I noticed some IMD on bigger registrations. I took some time to explain the 'art' of multichannel capability with HW. I returned a few months later at their request to hook up a Presonus audio interface they acquired which had 8 outputs. The speakers were passive Alesis studio monitors but they had limited amps to power them individually. A couple amps were driving 4 speakers. Regardless I setup 3 stereo pairs in a group and routed the Tibia, some strings, and tuned percussions to better demonstrate multichannel capability. The rest went to a group with the left over pairs still in parallel. The organists and owner did not like this setup! All they could 'hear' was a drop in power and fullness which was partially true since not all speakers were playing back every note. I personally could hear more clarity. They liked hearing individual notes spread across the new speaker group but asked that it be put back like before. :cry:

Regarding the choice of HW algorithms; Tone mode 1 or 2 is a good choice. As John mentioned earlier, they work to keep triads, in separate channels. With Tone Mode 1, it works to keep minor 3rds in separate speakers which is where IMD is most noticeable. If you send me a PM with your email address, I have the copy of the Leo Christensen Excel sheet that beautifully compares the different algorithms showing how notes and stops are distributed. There are multiple worksheet tabs for the number of speakers you have in a group (up to 12 of course).

Danny B.
Last edited by magnaton on Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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TubaFan

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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostThu Jan 28, 2021 9:36 am

Matt Arnold at Custom Organ Works is building everything for us. I'm going to let him set everything up and will save the configuration and experiment from there. This is in the Dallas/Forth Worth area of TX.

To be honest I'm not sure if it is a MOTU 24ao or not. From where it will be sitting though, we will not be able to see it. I will PM you my email address and appreciate the spreadsheet!
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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostTue Feb 09, 2021 8:00 am

TubaFan wrote:To be honest I'm not sure if it is a MOTU 24ao or not


Yes, this is the audio interface we are using.

Our delivery and installation was delayed from last week until today. I'm VERY excited to see this all finally come together today!
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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostSun Feb 14, 2021 10:36 am

I have to say that we are thrilled with the sound coming out of our system. It has far exceeded our expectations. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with Hauptwerk VI, but the flutes are especially clear now.

As for routing, for now we are using something like this (preview does not show full layout):

Image

Group 1 is a stereo pair for the pedal. More than that wasn't necessary and seemed like a waste of our speakers.

Group 2 is flues

Group 3 is reeds

Group 4 is reeds

Group 5 is flues

Group 6 is Solo

Groups 2-6 are using tone matching mode 1.

We assigned stops based on how they are used in combination. For example, the Great 8' Open Diapason is assigned to Group 5, the 4' Principal No 1 is Group 2 and the 2' Fifteenth is Group 3. We followed this principle throughout each division so that when you play combinations of stops, they activate different groups of speakers. The entire Solo division except for the Celeste rank speaks through group 6. High pitches flue stops, mixtures and celestes are routed to the "reed" groups.

I'm not sure we are done playing with it, but it sounds very good. I'm also very impressed with these speakers. The sound is extremely clear, and the entire church is filled with sound, even around to the most remote section of the transepts.
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dw154515

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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostSun Feb 14, 2021 10:14 pm

Glad to hear! I saw your post on Facebook. Can't wait to hear some recordings!
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostMon Feb 15, 2021 9:56 am

dw154515 wrote:Glad to hear! I saw your post on Facebook. Can't wait to hear some recordings!


Thanks! We will put something up soon.

The biggest improvement with this routing btw is definitely the celeste stops.
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magnaton

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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostMon Feb 15, 2021 1:16 pm

TubaFan wrote:The biggest improvement with this routing btw is definitely the celeste stops.

Yes, keeping celeste ranks in separate channels from its unison counterparts the sound really blooms.

I saw the picture on FB too, very nice! What sample set is that?

Danny B.
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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostMon Feb 15, 2021 4:17 pm

magnaton wrote:
TubaFan wrote:The biggest improvement with this routing btw is definitely the celeste stops.

Yes, keeping celeste ranks in separate channels from its unison counterparts the sound really blooms.

I saw the picture on FB too, very nice! What sample set is that?

Danny B.


Salisbury with a highly modified reverb. We still like that better than Hereford, and got it to sound quite good in our room. I would describe our acoustics as "soft," and although there is some reverb when it is empty, when it is full there is not very much. Dry sample sets didn't really sound good when we experimented with them before on the old setup.

Long term I am looking at Peterborough Cathedral as a possibility once the updated set is released.
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Re: Layout and routing for 22 studio monitors

PostThu May 06, 2021 8:46 pm

We've been living with this routing for a few months and although I plan to experiment with some other configurations, I am very happy with the routing we used. I see that the Behringer 2031a speakers are finally in stock again in the US. We could have saved a fair amount of money by waiting, but the quality from the PreSonus R80 is incredible.
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