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Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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magnaton

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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 12:21 am

It just so happens that I am finishing up a Chronicler III Hauptwerk VPO conversion. I'm not able to contribute any suggestions for your MIDI issue as the previous owner removed all the native AG tone generation, motherboard (which controls the MIDI), keyboards, and drawknobs. The stop jambs were expertly reworked by a master craftsman to make room for 17" TS monitors that slid in and looks like it was designed this way from the start.

Here are a few early pictures:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16WrkOHHWAkeFyn4yNuOcASn0Rd51wpPQ?usp=sharing

So basically I treated this project as one would an older non-MIDI electronic organ. New Fatar keyboards were added, new LED lighting for under the music rack and pedalboard. I have a deadline to deliver this instrument to its new home and didn't have time to try and decipher the scan matrix or multiplexing plus low voltage mix so I just wired it discreetly (scan row) to new encoder boards. This went pretty fast as many of the contact points on the PCBs had abundant solider blobs!

This organ is from the early 2000s and is very well made and HEAVY! Console end struts are finished on both sides along with other marks of excellent workmanship. A friend in the church organ business stated that this was probably one the last units made before the hardwood ban in Europe. The Gialanti cables were secured with heavy duty cloth covered 'bread ties' that are securely stapled in. I took advantage of them for my wiring needs 8)

Looking at the back of the console, its divided into 9 compartments. The two top left and right compartments behind the touch screens are the only ones where a small-form-factor computer can fit. When the roll top is open, it slides back and about closes up this new computer compartment on the left side! So I'm having to design ventilation to keep things cooled down. On top of each stop jam is a little built in tweeter. Allen Organ used to call these "presence projectors". I removed the driver but kept the protective screen. I installed a 3.5" silent CPU fan underneath to draw fresh air in. In turn, I have another fan towards the back to push the air out the side into a much larger area which is the width of the keyboard & keycheeks. I purchased a Bluetooth heat sensor to document my progress along the way as fans were added.

In conclusion, I've gained a new respect for Galanti. Well at least for this model which I understand was their flagship line.

Danny B.
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engrssc

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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 3:22 am

Well done in all respects. Do you happen to know the model number of the touch screens?

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 8:13 am

engrssc wrote:Well done in all respects. Do you happen to know the model number of the touch screens?

Rgds,
Ed

Hi Ed:

I don't know the model but they are standard 17" HP monitors with the case parts all removed. This exposes the all metal construction with 4 rear screw mounts that are reused to secure it to the jamb frame. 17" touch screen overlays are attached to the front which you see in the pictures. The overlays are a solid frame with no buttons or lights and gives a professional look.


Danny B.
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 10:35 am

Thanks Danny. Curious do you find any angular issues using the overlays?

I had such a setup and there were issues between shorter and taller organists, issues like accurately pointing to a desired stop esp on sample sets where the stops were smaller and close together. The problem seemed to be (obviously) how close the overlay was to the screen.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 10:08 am

Thanks for all your replies. Has anyone had a direct contact with Albhorn Galanti? They seem to be based in the USA. The website doesn't give a central service contact, rather a list of dealers http://www.ahlborn-galanti.com/Contact.htm
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 11:04 am

Here is the contact page in the US:
http://galantiorgans.com/contact-us/

I've spoken to Ron a couple times regarding my Chronicler III.

Danny B.
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 1:16 pm

Thanks for that Dan. I've emailed Ron.
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostFri Oct 01, 2021 11:26 am

After conversing with Ron at Albhorn-Galanti, he says there should be no problem in interfacing the Chronicler III console with HW and he has done it successfully. It's not possible to turn off the console combination system. I wonder if I've missed something.? Here's what I did:
mapped physical stops to Rotterdam virtual stops. All worked OK
I Used the console combination system to program pistons to physical stops. The physical stops respond but the HW stops don't and behave in a random way. seemingly they will come on but not go off.
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostFri Oct 01, 2021 2:15 pm

Hello:

This a typical hurdle when working with physical stops, virtual stops, and a combination action. So you've mapped
physical stops to Rotterdam virtual stops. All worked OK

I take this to mean the virtual stop stays in sync when you press the physical stop on or off. In other words activating a stop (push or pull) it's contact is sending out a MIDI signal.

With lighted drawknobs or rocker tabs, the light can be activated separately, meaning you don't have to press a tab (or drawknob) for it light up or turn off. It sounds like the Galanti combination system is activating your desired registration when you press a piston and it turns on the respective stop lamps simply as an "indication" but they themselves are not sending out the MIDI signal you used to auto-detect them.

If what I said is true, then you may try to see if the Galanti stops will respond to a Hauptwerk output MIDI message (Midi note on/off or NRPN). The test here is opposite from what I said earlier; press a "virtual stop" and see if the physical stop (lamp) responds accordingly.

Danny B.
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 12:32 pm

Hello Danny
Yes it's exactly as you say;

I take this to mean the virtual stop stays in sync when you press the physical stop on or off. In other words activating a stop (push or pull) it's contact is sending out a MIDI signal.

The stop lights respond to pistons but MIDI is not being sent back to HW. If the Galanti stops are pressed then MIDI is sent out and HW responds. The Galanti stops respond when the virtual stops are used so HW is sending MIDI back to the console.
I'll need to check again with MIDI OX exactly what messages, if any, are being sent out.
Thanks
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 1:04 pm

The pistons on the Chronicler 3 might be sending a MIDI list of stops they are programmed for. If MIDI Ox shows a long message, that might be the case. I can't find a user manual to check, but there might be a setting to just send a simple on/off message. There was an option like that on my old AG3200, which was a Chronicler 3 successor. If I'm remembering correctly -- it's been a few years since I binned that.

Either way, you won't be able to use console pistons mapped to HW combinations *and* console stops mapped to HW stops. You'll have to choose one or the other. Since console stops work, you might want to get a Launchpad or X-Keys to trigger HW combinations and ignore your console pistons.
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostWed Oct 27, 2021 3:46 am

After some more investigating, done via Team Viewer I can see that the pistons do not send MIDI messages to the HW stops. The event is 'PC: Synth Strings 1' Although the physical stops light up the message is not passed to HW. The stops themselves send control change messages, Event 'Control Change'. It's looking like there's no easy solution to this other than replacing the stops with touchscreens.
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Re: Problem adding MIDI to Ahlborn-Galanti Leipzig

PostMon Nov 01, 2021 9:34 pm

Hello Thalben:

Catching back up on this thread. Sounds like you are almost there. Again if the physical lighted Stops remain in sync with virtual stops even when pressing a virtual piston, then the Galanti's piston MIDI signal is the weak link here. Depending on how comfortable you are with electronics, I'd suggest wiring the contacts points on the back of PCBs to a separate MIDI encoder. You only need 51 inputs plus a common so an Audrino solution would work great and be inexpensive. This way the pistons will send out the correct MIDI signal that HW can manage.

I consider these Chronicler models to be serviceman friendly :-). You'll have remove the back, top lid, and roll top. The name board and keyboards easily flip up for easy access to the piston rail which is actually a separate unit attached by 3 or 4 screws to the keyboard assembly. You can unplug the Galanti ribbon cable and move the piston rail to a work bench. When I did my HW project on this model, the piston contacts on the PCB had a healthy solider bead on most of the trace points. This made for short work adding the new signal wiring.

For what it's worth, I have an acquaintance who has a late model Allen MDS theatre organ. It only has 4 native memory levels. He really wanted to use HW's combination system. Everything mapped and works accordingly except the General Cancel piston! It sends out a MIDI signal when pressed but not to HW's liking. I learned this all from a conversation with him. I think for the time being he's just going to remap a divisional piston or obscure toe stud for GC.

Danny B.
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