St Mary, Redcliffe

[JulianMoney-Kyrle]

Thank-you for your prompt response. I have now ordered the demo.

[sclg]

What are people's recommendation for those with 3 manual consoles? Floating manuals or just assign Choir/Echo to one keyboard or what??
Thanks
Steve

[jerrymartin]

Thanks Mark and Jerry,

Reeds on Choir: The three GT reeds are transferred to the CH and no longer play on GT.
Tromba on Choir: Turns on the above transfer plus the GT Tromba 8.

I don't understand: the three GT reeds are Tromba 16/8/4, so "Reeds/Tromba on Choir” is the same(?)

I think I see where the confusion is (because we had to check and double check to make sure we got it right!)

There is a physical draw stop on the choir "reeds on choir"
Then there are two pistons "Tromba on Choir" and "Reeds on Choir"

The physical draw stop activates the transfer mechanism: when you draw the STOP "Reeds on Choir" - then the 16/8/4 reeds play on the Choir and as Mark says this gives you the flexibility to play the great trombas as a solo stop (and they are big!)

Then the pistons:
piston-Reeds-On-Choir: this is a non-reversible piston that, when pressed, draws the "reeds on choir" drawstop (activating the transfer) and simultaneously the 16/8/4 reeds. (So it's a one-button for big-reed-solo on the choir)

pison-Tromba-On-Choir: this is a non-reversible piston that, when pressed, draws "reeds on choir" drawstop but JUST the 8' tromba on the great (still a big sound, but less so).

Definitely one of the wonderful playing aids on the real organ!

[mnailor]

sclg: You can leave the Solo/Echo unassigned and couple it where needed if you like.

I assigned it to the Swell for convenience (but less flexibility) because the Swell has no soft stops and I never use my 4th manual.

Jerry: Sorry, I was only talking about the buttons I see on the Simple screen view. I didn't even look at the pistons, since I only use HW master pistons for all organs. Thanks for the clarifications.

[jerrymartin]

What are people's recommendation for those with 3 manual consoles? Floating manuals or just assign Choir/Echo to one keyboard or what??
Thanks
Steve

My current preference:

I leave the solo completely un-assigned and then use any of the native couplers to bring it to swell/great/choir as needed
Solo to swell with swell unison off temporarily gives me just the solo if needed
The Choir is so delicate, that when I need tuba solo I can just couple that down without further adjustment

I have used floating divisions with other samplesets, but haven't found the need to use it here just yet

Generals/Hauptwerk Stepper mean that you can quickly change coupler configurations etc.

[smfrank]

I would just like to mention, besides being a beautiful set, and huge, it downloaded very quickly and installed without issue!
Steve

[sclg]

My current preference:

I leave the solo completely un-assigned and then use any of the native couplers to bring it to swell/great/choir as needed
Solo to swell with swell unison off temporarily gives me just the solo if needed
The Choir is so delicate, that when I need tuba solo I can just couple that down without further adjustment

Thanks Jerry.

[IainStinson]

I very pleased with the SMR organ. Richard and Jerimiah have done an excellent job in creating the sample set. It sounds wonderful both via my speaker setup (5 front, 2 rear, 1 sub) and on my headphones. I know real instrument only through recordings and the sample set sounds better than these (except possibly for the accuracy of the organist). There are lots of wonderful stops: playing for an extended time on any number of these individually is delightful and you don’t tire from the sound. (I think on any great organ you should be able to play on individual stops without becoming weary or bored with the sound.) The ensembles and big sounds are thrilling. The tonal palette is extensive and the dynamic range is vast.

Many of the cathedral H&H organs we know are rebuilds of the work of others, many are originally Willis or Hill organs. In the early part of the 20th century when H&H rebuilt some of the larger cathedral organs, quite a lot of “adjustments” were apparently made to the voicing of the organs, and the accent of the organs changed. SMR is really an H&H instrument from the Edwardian period, and although some of the pipes were from previous instruments in the church, it speaks as H&H thought organs should sound in the early part of the 20th century, without the compromise of incorporating a substantial amount of good work from other eminent builders. (Contrast the sound with the excellent sample set from St David's Cathedral, which includes a substantial amount of Willis pipework: the tone (and accent) of these two H&H instruments is rather different. The acoustic of both buildings is also different.)

The virtual console is a joy to see and use (on my touch screens). It is clear and legible. (The simple screen is fine, but I don’t use it.) It is really like having a real H&H console to play. The virtual piston system, with the Great & Pedal Combinations coupled, is just as it should be (and maps well onto my console). Having an initial set of combinations provided is very helpful (and these are preset in the 64 default named combination files). The registration stepper pistons operate the Hauptwerk registration sequencer. On my three manual console, I use Hauptwerk's floating keyboards to share the bottom manual between the choir and the Solo/Echo division.

The intra manual couplers (sub octave, octave and unison off) operate through the inter-manual couplers; the intra manual couplers work through the manual to pedal couplers but the inter-manual couplers do not operate through the manual to pedal couplers (e.g. Swell octave operates through the Swell to Great and Swell to Pedal, but the Swell to Great does not operate through the Great to Pedal). There are two expression pedals for the Swell division (operating two separate sets of shutters); on my console I had to assign these both to the single expression I wanted to use for the Swell, I used the other expression pedal (of two) for the Solo division.

The settings screen allows you to make changes to the balance between the overall parts of the organ. I’m using the “Recorded” preset with the pallet and slider noises reduced. I’ve not really played with the ambience options, but I’m trying them out!

This is a great organ and the excellent SMR sample set captures it very well (and from the perspective of only hearing the real organ on CDs) and faithfully. There is a useful booklet available on the BIS website about the organ and the sample set (including information about installing the sample set); there also helpful external links to other SMR information. The sample set downloaded and installed without problems on my Hauptwerk 9 system. I was fortunate in having early access to SMR and enjoyed the experience.

The time-limited demo version (the cost of which is refundable against the purchase price of the organ) will give those interested a chance to evaluate the instrument for themselves in their own listening environment. It is well worth trying out – but beware, you’ll probably want to keep it!

Iain

[richmcveigh]

I very pleased with the SMR organ. Richard and Jerimiah have done an excellent job in creating the sample set. It sounds wonderful both via my speaker setup (5 front, 2 rear, 1 sub) and on my headphones. I know real instrument only through recordings and the sample set sounds better than these (except possibly for the accuracy of the organist). There are lots of wonderful stops: playing for an extended time on any number of these individually is delightful and you don’t tire from the sound. (I think on any great organ you should be able to play on individual stops without becoming weary or bored with the sound.) The ensembles and big sounds are thrilling. The tonal palette is extensive and the dynamic range is vast.

Many of the cathedral H&H organs we know are rebuilds of the work of others, many are originally Willis or Hill organs. In the early part of the 20th century when H&H rebuilt some of the larger cathedral organs, quite a lot of “adjustments” were apparently made to the voicing of the organs, and the accent of the organs changed. SMR is really an H&H instrument from the Edwardian period, and although some of the pipes were from previous instruments in the church, it speaks as H&H thought organs should sound in the early part of the 20th century, without the compromise of incorporating a substantial amount of good work from other eminent builders. (Contrast the sound with the excellent sample set from St David's Cathedral, which includes a substantial amount of Willis pipework: the tone (and accent) of these two H&H instruments is rather different. The acoustic of both buildings is also different.)

The virtual console is a joy to see and use (on my touch screens). It is clear and legible. (The simple screen is fine, but I don’t use it.) It is really like having a real H&H console to play. The virtual piston system, with the Great & Pedal Combinations coupled, is just as it should be (and maps well onto my console). Having an initial set of combinations provided is very helpful (and these are preset in the 64 default named combination files). The registration stepper pistons operate the Hauptwerk registration sequencer. On my three manual console, I use Hauptwerk's floating keyboards to share the bottom manual between the choir and the Solo/Echo division.

The intra manual couplers (sub octave, octave and unison off) operate through the inter-manual couplers; the intra manual couplers work through the manual to pedal couplers but the inter-manual couplers do not operate through the manual to pedal couplers (e.g. Swell octave operates through the Swell to Great and Swell to Pedal, but the Swell to Great does not operate through the Great to Pedal). There are two expression pedals for the Swell division (operating two separate sets of shutters); on my console I had to assign these both to the single expression I wanted to use for the Swell, I used the other expression pedal (of two) for the Solo division.

The settings screen allows you to make changes to the balance between the overall parts of the organ. I’m using the “Recorded” preset with the pallet and slider noises reduced. I’ve not really played with the ambience options, but I’m trying them out!

This is a great organ and the excellent SMR sample set captures it very well (and from the perspective of only hearing the real organ on CDs) and faithfully. There is a useful booklet available on the BIS website about the organ and the sample set (including information about installing the sample set); there also helpful external links to other SMR information. The sample set downloaded and installed without problems on my Hauptwerk 9 system. I was fortunate in having early access to SMR and enjoyed the experience.

The time-limited demo version (the cost of which is refundable against the purchase price of the organ) will give those interested a chance to evaluate the instrument for themselves in their own listening environment. It is well worth trying out – but beware, you’ll probably want to keep it!

Iain

Thank you very much Iain for your kind works, and thank you being a very early customer for SMR!

As you say, all the noises are completely customisable and so you can turn them off entirely (unrealistic), or route them all individually to separate audio channels so that they are coming from the same location as their respective 'pipes'.

[richmcveigh]

I've written a post in the Facebook HW group asking for feedback, but I'd be interested if people could write your thoughts here as well.

If you have something particularly 'constructive' to say, I'd appreciate it if you could get in touch with me directly as I'm sure we can fix whatever it is you're experiencing.

As someone who has lived and breathed this organ since April 2024, I am very happy with the outcome and I can't think of anything I'd have done differently.

Please let me know your thoughts!

[JulianMoney-Kyrle]

First impressions are very favourable. It has a definite sense of presence and realism that most Hauptwerk organs don't really have; those that do are mostly smaller instruments in a much smaller acoustic - Noordbroek comes to mind. I have loved the way it sounds with Franck and Whitlock, and there are lots of options for fine-tuning the registration.

The dynamic range is quite large, and if I set it so that full organ isn't completely deafening then the quietest stops are lost a bit in the ambience, though the volume of the ambience is adjustable and I prefer it rather quieter than the default. I should add that the actual organ in SMR really is very loud indeed and can get a bit uncomfortable even half-way down the nave.

I had a bit of trouble finding suitable registration for a Bach Trio Sonata that wasn't also very quiet. However, after hearing Richard playing the Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor very effectively at SMR it is clearly up to playing Bach. Though if I really want to have a session of playing Baroque music I have plenty of other sample sets that are a lot more suitable.

I appreciate the organ coming with the pistons pre-programmed. Obviously organists will want to use their own registrations most of the time, but it shows how an experienced organist such as Richard, who knows the instrument really well, would register a smooth crescendo, along with other useful presets that are not necessarily obvious. For instance, on the Swell there seem to be an additional 6 pistons for solo effects as well as the 8 for pp to ff. The explanation and suggestions for registration in the manual are also very helpful.

I have a single touchscreen monitor on a hinged arm which normally sits just above the music desk. This isn't very conducive to rapid stop changes at the best of times, but I find the rectangular stops on the simple screen harder to use than then more square ones provided by Sonus Paradisi. On the other hand, when registering at the beginning of a piece the layout is fine. Maybe the provision of alternative versions would be too much to ask for, though.

Compared to Salisbury and Peterborough the 2' Fifteenths and the mixtures are quite a bit louder, making the chorus brighter, though not as bright as Blackburn. I supppose this is H & H compared to Willis or Hill (or Walker) and is a different concept of how an organ should sound. Choosing the Nave perspective tones this down a bit and so far sounds better to my aging ears.

Over all it really does seem to live up to the hype, and I can see myself playing it a lot more than the other English Cathedral sample sets in my collection.

[mpullan]

First impressions are very favourable. It has a definite sense of presence and realism that most Hauptwerk organs don't really have; those that do are mostly smaller instruments in a much smaller acoustic - Noordbroek comes to mind. I have loved the way it sounds with Franck and Whitlock, and there are lots of options for fine-tuning the registration.

The dynamic range is quite large, and if I set it so that full organ isn't completely deafening then the quietest stops are lost a bit in the ambience, though the volume of the ambience is adjustable and I prefer it rather quieter than the default. I should add that the actual organ in SMR really is very loud indeed and can get a bit uncomfortable even half-way down the nave.

I had a bit of trouble finding suitable registration for a Bach Trio Sonata that wasn't also very quiet. However, after hearing Richard playing the Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor very effectively at SMR it is clearly up to playing Bach. Though if I really want to have a session of playing Baroque music I have plenty of other sample sets that are a lot more suitable.

I appreciate the organ coming with the pistons pre-programmed. Obviously organists will want to use their own registrations most of the time, but it shows how an experienced organist such as Richard, who knows the instrument really well, would register a smooth crescendo, along with other useful presets that are not necessarily obvious. For instance, on the Swell there seem to be an additional 6 pistons for solo effects as well as the 8 for pp to ff. The explanation and suggestions for registration in the manual are also very helpful.

I have a single touchscreen monitor on a hinged arm which normally sits just above the music desk. This isn't very conducive to rapid stop changes at the best of times, but I find the rectangular stops on the simple screen harder to use than then more square ones provided by Sonus Paradisi. On the other hand, when registering at the beginning of a piece the layout is fine. Maybe the provision of alternative versions would be too much to ask for, though.

Compared to Salisbury and Peterborough the 2' Fifteenths and the mixtures are quite a bit louder, making the chorus brighter, though not as bright as Blackburn. I supppose this is H & H compared to Willis or Hill (or Walker) and is a different concept of how an organ should sound. Choosing the Nave perspective tones this down a bit and so far sounds better to my aging ears.

Over all it really does seem to live up to the hype, and I can see myself playing it a lot more than the other English Cathedral sample sets in my collection.

I find myself more or less in complete agreement with this. St Mary, Redcliffe certainly does live to the hype. I should perhaps add that I was actually somewhat sceptical about the sample set before I started using it. I wasn't a particular fan of British organs, and I hadn't heard a sample set from a British organ that really grabbed me. Upon playing St Mary, Redcliffe for a few days though, I had to eat humble pie and admit defeat. It really was—really is—extremely good.

I also prefer the rectangular stops of the simple screen on the Sonus Paradisi sample sets. There is a bigger target for a finger flying from the console. But, who needs the simple screen when the stop jambs are so good?

I too really appreciate the pre-programmed pistons and the suggestions in the user manual. I hope other sample set producers will do similar things in the future.

And finally, I too have had a bit of trouble figuring out good registrations for Bach Trio Sonatas. I've come up with a few ideas, but I wonder if Richard has any suggestions?

[mnailor]

"But, who needs the simple screen when the stop jambs are so good?"

People with one monitor and no room for two. Or with a disabled hand. I have both situations, and the thin rectangles on the simple screen are a curse, or at least make me curse. Otherwise, great sampleset!

[mpullan]

"But, who needs the simple screen when the stop jambs are so good?"

People with one monitor and no room for two. Or with a disabled hand. I have both situations, and the thin rectangles on the simple screen are a curse, or at least make me curse. Otherwise, great sampleset!

Fair enough! I think I too would curse thin rectangular buttons if that were all I had. I wonder how you manage to play the organ if you have a disabled hand?

[mnailor]

Slowly. And using the pedalboard as a floating division to take a left hand part at times.