Pedal Couplers (Divide)

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Federico Teruzzi
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Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by Federico Teruzzi »

Hi,
I was trying to create couplers for my test organ in CODM and I saw in "CODM_CouplerCode" the 1003 and 1004, I tried to use them but I failed... I wanted to create the option that the pedal could have two different registers at the same time, the bass makes the bass and the melody the melody. In short, the normal functioning of "to bass" "to melody" between different keyboards. I tried to see in the various registers if I had to put various checkmarks but I didn't understand how to do it. Does anyone know or has already done it?

Thanks you,

Federico
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mdyde
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by mdyde »

Hello Federico,

[I'll move this topic to the "Custom Organ Design Module (CODM)" section of the forum once you've had a chance to read this reply.]

Do you mean that (using the Great and Swell as examples), if you play a chord on the Great you would like to have a single coupler (named something like "Swell Bass and Melody to Great") which, when turned on, would play both the lowest note of your chord on the Swell division, as well as the highest note of you chord on the Swell division, but that would not couple any of the chord's other (in-between) notes to the Swell?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Federico Teruzzi
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by Federico Teruzzi »

Hi, thanks for moving me, I don't know why I wrote "create sample set". I meant the funcion of 1004, i didnt understand how does it works. I want to implement a funcion alled "Pedal divide" that can divide de highest note in the pedal played from the lowest, like it does the melody/soprano from one keyboard to an other. I think i have to set some register to use some with the highest note played and some others for the bass, but dont know how.
The funcion i want to recreate is what it can be used in Blackburn sample, or some modern organ.

If you need others information, tell me.

Thanks,

Federico
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mdyde
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by mdyde »

Thanks, Federico.

I don't have the Blackburn sample set, but is my understanding correct that (within a CODM ODF) you're hoping to implement a coupler/switch that behaves as follows:

- When the switch is *not* turned on, all of the keys on the pedalboard play the Pedal division's ranks and couplers as normal.

- When the switch *is* turned on:
---- Keys on the pedalboard below a certain point (e.g. the bottom octave) play the Pedal division's ranks and couplers as normal.
---- Keys on the pedalboard above that point (e.g. the top octave and a half, for a 32-note pedalboard) are disconnected from the Pedal division's ranks and couplers, and instead play another division's ranks and couplers (e.g. the Swell division's)?

E.g. as described here: https://mander-organs-forum.invisionzon ... edalboard/

If so, there is also an older topic on implementing types of 'pedal divide' within the CODM here:

https://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?t=15786
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
mnailor
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by mnailor »

The pedal divide function I learned (in US) played pedal stops and coupled manuals as usual below the split point, but only played any divisions coupled to the pedal above the split point. In this interpretation, the upper range just doesn't play any pedal stops.

I'm sure the other two interpretations above (bass and melody couplers to pedal, or upper range moves to a designated manual) are equally valid!
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IainStinson
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by IainStinson »

In a article about David Briggs
“ While at Gloucester he oversaw the rebuilding of the organ which included the installation of the "divided pedal". This allows the pedal board to be "split", meaning that the pedal stops sound on the lower section, and the upper section can be set to reproduce the sound of any of the manuals. Briggs also oversaw the installation of this system on the Father Willis organ of Truro Cathedral in its rebuild in 1991.”

At Truro
“Divided Pedal (adjustable dividing point: A# B C C# D D#; under the 'divide':
Pedal stops and couplers; above the 'divide': four illuminated controls
(above Solo manual) Choir/Swell,Great/Solo to Pedal;

At Kings College Chapel
“ At King’s you can select the divide point within a range of about 6 notes. To the left the pedal board plays the pedal stops if drawn and would also play whatever pedal to manual coupler was drawn. To the right of the split you can engage any or all of the pedal to manual couplers. So the divide allows you to have pedal board playing any of 2 manual departments in tandem with or without some pedal departments stops on the left side of the split.”

I’m sure that there are other variations…

Possibly keeping it simple, lower half plays pedal only stops and upper half plays any coupled manuals, along with setting the split point, would be adequate and easier to control.

Iain
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mdyde
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by mdyde »

Thanks, Mark and Iain.

Although any of those things could be implemented within the 'full' ODF format, the CODM wasn't really designed to handle them (although it would just-about be technically possible, albeit fiddly, to implement a basic Pedal divide as covered in the topic linked previously).

We do have an existing enhancement request for potentially adding a 'master Pedal divide' function to Hauptwerk (which would probably be the neatest solution), and I've added your notes to that.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Federico Teruzzi
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by Federico Teruzzi »

Hi,
i'm trying follow this page https://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?t=15786 i tried follow this but i dont understand how stops will be connected in order to turn off the "solo" when i have "pedal divide" on.
Last edited by Federico Teruzzi on Wed Jan 08, 2025 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mdyde
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by mdyde »

Thanks, Federico.

I'm afraid I don't really have time to help in detail at the moment, so I'll have to leave you to experiment, but hopefully that topic will give you some ideas for approaches that you could use.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
mnailor
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by mnailor »

Not done in CODM, but I tested a limited pedal divide scheme that works using floating divisions. The upper pedals play on a manual when that route is selected. I use one piston to go to route 1, 2, 3, 4 and another to return to route 1.

Set up two floating divisions splitting the pedalboard, for example:

FD1 = pedals bass C to tenor C
FD2 = pedals tenor C# to alto G

Plan routes, such as this example:

RT1 = pedals play Pedal division only
RT2 = pedals play Great division only
RT3 = bass pedals play Pedal and upper pedals play Great
RT4 = bass pedals play Pedal and upper pedals play Swell

Set Pedal, Great, and Swell keyboard inputs according to your route plan:

Pedal Input 1 = FD1 RT1, Input 2 = FD2 RT1, Input 3 = FD1 RT3, Input 4 = FD1 RT4

Great Input 2 = FD1 RT2, Input 3 = FD2 RT2, Input 4 = FD2 RT3

Swell Input 2 = FD2 RT4

I hope I typed that correctly.
Federico Teruzzi
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by Federico Teruzzi »

mdyde wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 12:10 pm Thanks, Federico.

I'm afraid I don't really have time to help in detail at the moment, so I'll have to leave you to experiment, but hopefully that topic will give you some ideas for approaches that you could use.
Thanks you,

If i want to do the divide as told in the other form, i cannot sync the stops to division, and to toggle them when are not accesseble on midi.

"- Division 8 would be for the stops for the lower portion of the Pedal division (as defined by Division.MIDINoteNumOfFirstKey and Division.NumberOfKeys). The Stop objects would be displayed and MIDI-accessible as normal.

- Division 9 would be for stops for the upper portion of the Pedal division (as defined by Division.MIDINoteNumOfFirstKey and Division.NumberOfKeys). The Stop objects would be non-displayed and non MIDI-accessible, and they would copy their states from their equivalents from division 8."

"- Create a non-displayed, non MIDI-accessible coupler with source=division 1, destination=division 8, full compass, that defaults to engaged (i.e. is always on).

- Create a non-displayed, non MIDI-accessible coupler with source=division 1, destination=division 11, full compass, that defaults to engaged (i.e. is always on)."

This parts
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mdyde
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Re: Pedal Couplers (Divide)

Post by mdyde »

Hello Federico,

Although not themselves designated as MIDI-accessible, where indicated they would have Stop.StopCodeFromWhichToCopyState set, and the stop they would copy from is MIDI-accessible, so they would be controlled *indirectly* from MIDI (via the copied stop states).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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