Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

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high5ths
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by high5ths »

Just upgraded to Hauptwerk 9 (running on a Mac) and I just wish the menus reflected the same hierarchies as the touch screens. Yes, the touch screens are a good improvement for many functions, but it would feel more normal if the menu bar still contained the normal items. I had several Keyboard Maestro macros that manipulated Hauptwerk via menu selection, and now that seems to be impossible — unless I'm missing something?

For example, I had a macro to set an organ to A=465, A=415, or A=392, by selecting the A440 menu item and then repeatedly lowering/raising the pitch — this was really useful and worked flawlessly. Now I'll have to work out some other workaround, for those and any other macros I had.

Replacing the full-featured set of menus with their exact commands in the Touch Menus is unfortunate.
mnailor
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by mnailor »

Settings | MIDI/Key triggers has Pitch: triggers in 1 cent and 1 Hz increments that can be assigned to computer keys or MIDI controls.

That's how it can be done in a documented, supported manner that should have only small changes when there's a major release, and the changes should be in the release notes.

A user interface, like the old menu system, isn't supposed to be a supported programming interface for automation. There's no reason to expect a menu emulation trick to survive past a major upgrade. No software vendor would guarantee stability of their UI for screen-scraping.
high5ths
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by high5ths »

mnailor wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 8:55 am There's no reason to expect a menu emulation trick to survive past a major upgrade. No software vendor would guarantee stability of their UI for screen-scraping.
Totally understand this, and yes, I'll have to create MIDI triggers from now on. I certainly don't expect "stability" across releases, but I do think it's bizarre and non-standard to have essentially no items in the menu bar anymore.
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mdyde
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by mdyde »

Hello high5ths,

Thanks for upgrading to v9, and for the thoughts. The traditional menu bar was removed because it duplicated some (but not all) of the functions on the touch menu and control panels, and it was felt that it had become so large that overall it was confusing and intimidating to many users. Sorry that its removal prevented your previous macros from working.

As Mark suggested, yes -- auto-detecting MIDI/keys to your desired functions is probably the best option for what you want to do.

(You might conceivably be able to do it by navigating the functions on the touch menu using standard OS keyboard shortcuts -- using the F1-F12+Fn keys to select a touch menu tab, then tabbing through its buttons to navigate to them, then pressing them using the space-bar to select the button, for example. However, note that on macOS you would need to enable macOS' 'full keyboard access' preference for that to be possible, although we found that it still didn't always seem to work reliably on macOS, whereas it seems to work better on Windows. In any case, auto-detecting the functions would probably be more satisfactory, and shouldn't change between Hauptwerk versions.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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ajt
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by ajt »

Is there ever going to be an option for ‘use normal menus’? I have put up with the touch menus since release, but really really really really can’t bear them. Half the time I can’t find what I’m looking for; particularly in the audio tab because things move around/wrap for whatever reason. Currently building a new HW machine and considering using v8 instead.
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by smfrank »

ajt wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 5:57 pm Is there ever going to be an option for ‘use normal menus’?
I agree
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mnailor
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by mnailor »

smfrank wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 6:05 pm
ajt wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 5:57 pm Is there ever going to be an option for ‘use normal menus’?
I agree
Steve
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ajt
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by ajt »

In some ways I'm relieved that you've both replied so quickly; I thought it was just me (and my son!).

I'm sure for touch screen users it's a an improvement, but ...

also, apologies, I hadn't seen this thread - https://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?t=21524
Adrian
Tompion
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by Tompion »

Yes, the touch screen issue was a reason that I was hoping I could upgrade from HW7 to HW8 (not HW9) but then learned that HW8 is no longer available. I know my way around the HW7 menus and decided the time needed to adjust to the HW9 interface was not worth the benefits of having faster loading of organs.
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mdyde
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by mdyde »

Hello Adrian/Bruce/Steve/Mark,

For the reasons discussed in that thread ( https://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?t=21524 ), the main focus of v9 was to simplify the user interface to reduce duplication, including removing the traditional application menu bar in favour of the touch menu. We don't currently plan to undo that, I'm afraid. It's different, and adjusting to something different inevitably takes a little time, but I do think you will find that the touch menu is easy to navigate and use (and indeed better) once you get used to it.
ajt wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 5:57 pm Half the time I can’t find what I’m looking for; particularly in the audio tab because things move around/wrap for whatever reason.
Are you referring to the "Settings | Audio routing, reverb and voicing/panning settings" tab?

It looks like this if the 'simple audio routing' general preference is ticked:
HWv9TouchMenu-Settings-Audio-Simple.jpg
... otherwise (if not 'simple audio routing' isn't ticked) like this:
HWv9TouchMenu-Settings-Audio-Full.jpg
Except for changing that preference, nothing on it moves around. Could you clarify what it is about that tab that you find confusing and why?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
mnailor
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by mnailor »

A couple of things I really like about HW9.

Selecting and docking the control panels one time for all organs is a time saver.

Per-organ convolution reverbs on mixer buses let me delete a lot of duplicate buses and groups, for a much simpler audio setup. 26 speakers and a sub used to be a lot more complicated to maintain.
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ajt
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by ajt »

Martin, the main thing I find hard/weird to navigate is that there are effectively sub-tabs, but only indicated by text, eg the midi settings/audio routing example in the image you post. That might be why I think things are moving around.

I can completely understand it is easier for touch screen users and that it needed an overhaul. As I said, I’ve been running it since launch, and have put up with it, because I didn’t really have to do much configuration, but now I’m switching to a new machine and starting pretty from scratch, configuring every single organ, all the audio routing and voicing etc, I just find it irritating. (As does my eldest, who spends far far far more time tinkering with HW than I do; I mostly just want to play the thing)
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mdyde
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by mdyde »

Thanks, Adrian.
ajt wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2025 2:09 pm the main thing I find hard/weird to navigate is that there are effectively sub-tabs, but only indicated by text, eg the midi settings/audio routing example in the image you post. That might be why I think things are moving around.
That's the way that tabs are drawn by the touch-interface for the multi-platform library that we use, i.e. with a text label for the tab, and with the current one underlined and highlighted in colour, and the tabs 'lighting up' as one moves the pointer over them. I believe it's probably based on how tablet operating systems (Android and/or iOS) render tabs. Anyway, I think one gets used to it fairly quickly.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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pwhodges
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Re: Hauptwerk IX Early User Experience

Post by pwhodges »

To my mind it would work better if the unselected tabs also had a slightly different colour or shade, so that the "tab bar" was visibly distinct.

It doesn't feel natural to me to wiggle my mouse around to find what reacts to it - though all too often these days that is precisely what one has to do.

Paul
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