I hope this is the right place to post this…
I struggled with this when I installed a HW organ at my church (2015-16). I’m now rebuilding my system at home and am setting up external speakers here as well.
My problem is/was every stop on each sample set was louder at the bottom end than the top… significantly so. I would have expected the def tech speakers to properly/evenly handle an 8’ or higher pitch stop without issue. Every stop got quieter as you went up the scale. I edited every stop of each sample set to boost volume while going up the keyboard
This same thing is happening at home. In both places I’ve settled on using a focusrite 18i20. BUT I have experienced this same problem with a motu interface and some generic cheap one.
Why does this happen?! Is there an easy way to deal with this?
“EQ” when using speakers
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
I'd be looking at your speakers and amplifiers for the cause, not the samples (unless it's only one of your organs with the symptom) or the audio interface.
What model of speakers? Are the speakers' tweeters facing you directly at ear level, with no horizontal or vertical angle? Are they close to you, say 3 - 4 feet away at most? Do they have any high/low adjustments where you could boost the treble and/or reduce the bass? Are they turned up loud enough? Are they self-powered, or what model of external amp is driving them? Is there a subwoofer boosting the bass compared to the treble? (Test with it off.)
I have several different speaker models, and most samplesets sound very bright in the upper range, to the point where I aim the speakers away at a 15 - 20 degree angle and reduce their high frequency levels. Otherwise the upperwork hurts my ears.
What model of speakers? Are the speakers' tweeters facing you directly at ear level, with no horizontal or vertical angle? Are they close to you, say 3 - 4 feet away at most? Do they have any high/low adjustments where you could boost the treble and/or reduce the bass? Are they turned up loud enough? Are they self-powered, or what model of external amp is driving them? Is there a subwoofer boosting the bass compared to the treble? (Test with it off.)
I have several different speaker models, and most samplesets sound very bright in the upper range, to the point where I aim the speakers away at a 15 - 20 degree angle and reduce their high frequency levels. Otherwise the upperwork hurts my ears.
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
On most organs, the pipes should get quieter as you go up the rank, otherwise it can get a bit painful.
But it can be too much, maybe that's what you're talking about. MNailor is right when saying the sound system has a lot to do with it. It can also do with the room, some spaces decrease certain frequencies more than others. If you have the advanced edition, you can voice the organ louder, but that's a lot of work. Some users get room correction software, or a third party equalizer, say as a plug in for reaper. You can also get equalizer boxes between the output and your speakers.
It's a matter of cost vs. time and convenience.
But it can be too much, maybe that's what you're talking about. MNailor is right when saying the sound system has a lot to do with it. It can also do with the room, some spaces decrease certain frequencies more than others. If you have the advanced edition, you can voice the organ louder, but that's a lot of work. Some users get room correction software, or a third party equalizer, say as a plug in for reaper. You can also get equalizer boxes between the output and your speakers.
It's a matter of cost vs. time and convenience.
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
Sorry, I assumed he meant the decrease wasn't just the normal pipe volume variation across the pitch range. If it's that, it shouldn't be "fixed" at all.
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
To clarify, it isn't the normal pipe organ drop off. It is significantly more.
Yes, it could be the speakers. At the church I'm using some DefTech that came recommended from a (now defunct) HW organ builder. I've heard them in a different church and everything seemed appropriate. It could be the Focusrite, but as I said before, I noticed the issue with 2 other audio interfaces, too. Yes, the acoustics in the church are like playing the organ in a loaf of bread, but the problem is noticeable in the loft (where I'm only 15-20 feet away) and just gets worse when you go out into the room. Yes, direction makes a bit of a difference but not to the extent where there is a direction that is "good".
At home, I'm using a couple Velodyne woofers and an each woofer is paired with a couple velodyne 661 speakers. I've heard this on a different digital organ and things were in balance. On a surround sound system that doesn't seem to be an issue, either, although I realize that application is significantly different. Before you ask, the woofer can be turned off and the problem still exists.. ie, it isn't that the woofer is turned up too high.
Maybe I need to try to find an equalizer to some how insert. Does such a beast exist as a software solution so I can just apply it to everything? hmmm....
Yes, it could be the speakers. At the church I'm using some DefTech that came recommended from a (now defunct) HW organ builder. I've heard them in a different church and everything seemed appropriate. It could be the Focusrite, but as I said before, I noticed the issue with 2 other audio interfaces, too. Yes, the acoustics in the church are like playing the organ in a loaf of bread, but the problem is noticeable in the loft (where I'm only 15-20 feet away) and just gets worse when you go out into the room. Yes, direction makes a bit of a difference but not to the extent where there is a direction that is "good".
At home, I'm using a couple Velodyne woofers and an each woofer is paired with a couple velodyne 661 speakers. I've heard this on a different digital organ and things were in balance. On a surround sound system that doesn't seem to be an issue, either, although I realize that application is significantly different. Before you ask, the woofer can be turned off and the problem still exists.. ie, it isn't that the woofer is turned up too high.
Maybe I need to try to find an equalizer to some how insert. Does such a beast exist as a software solution so I can just apply it to everything? hmmm....
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
I would get better speakers. For example, Adam T8Vs are $300 each, have brilliant treble, and you could keep your Velodyne subwoofers for mixdown, and use the 661s as rear surround speakers where some dullness won't be such a big problem.
If you can't get better speakers, using Hauptwerk as a VST, you could use a DAW to provide EQ in software, but that can mean a computer upgrade to handle it and a lot of fiddling. I wouldn't go that route -- too easy to break.
A simpler solution is a medium priced audio interface with DSP that can do EQ per channel to boost your trebles. MOTU 828 mk5, for example.
If you can't get better speakers, using Hauptwerk as a VST, you could use a DAW to provide EQ in software, but that can mean a computer upgrade to handle it and a lot of fiddling. I wouldn't go that route -- too easy to break.
A simpler solution is a medium priced audio interface with DSP that can do EQ per channel to boost your trebles. MOTU 828 mk5, for example.
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
I ordered a pair of the Adam T8V speakers. I'll be curious to see if they are different. I guess it is now hurry up and wait.
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
At home, I hope you're not too far from the speakers. Mine are mostly 4 to 10 ft from my face, which works okay for the Adam T8V and T7V, which are nearfield monitors. Any farther away and you need midfield monitors.
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
I've had a similar problem with the lower notes on a number of sample sets appearing to being considerably louder or more pronounced than the higher notes and it's quite noticeable as I work my way up the scale, the higher I go the quieter it gets. I just ran into this very issue with St. Max the other night as I experiment with my latest speaker arrangement and routing scheme. One of the 8' trumpets all of a sudden went crazy loud on the lower notes, just about enough to rattle the fillings out of my teeth! 
The first thing I try to do is verify if it's the sample set or if it's the speakers and / or the sub, you've thus far have been able to rule out the sub. A good test before you go too far is put on a set of headphones and see if you hear the same thing vs. listening through the speakers, if you don't hear the same issue then you know it's something going on with the speakers whereas if you do hear the same then you know right out of the gate it's the sample set and that means there's some voicing to be done to correct it. I would expect just about any set because of all the variables from one user and set-up to the next will run into some of this and voicing is going to need to be done.
I also will turn off one pair of speakers at a time to see if the offending sound suddenly stops so I can pin point which speakers / channels are the culprits and once I've identified which it is I can then focus on correcting it. I've found certain speakers because of their frequency response will really almost over-enhance a certain range whereas others will not.
Some sort of EQ would be good to have whichever route you choose and I really don't think it has anything to do with your soundcard. I hope a future version of HW includes an EQ feature and I think Martin has logged it as a possible add-on some time in the future.
I've got a couple pairs of these and have used them with good results in the past, certainly cheap enough to give them a try.
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/BBE/U ... g8QAvD_BwE
Marc
The first thing I try to do is verify if it's the sample set or if it's the speakers and / or the sub, you've thus far have been able to rule out the sub. A good test before you go too far is put on a set of headphones and see if you hear the same thing vs. listening through the speakers, if you don't hear the same issue then you know it's something going on with the speakers whereas if you do hear the same then you know right out of the gate it's the sample set and that means there's some voicing to be done to correct it. I would expect just about any set because of all the variables from one user and set-up to the next will run into some of this and voicing is going to need to be done.
I also will turn off one pair of speakers at a time to see if the offending sound suddenly stops so I can pin point which speakers / channels are the culprits and once I've identified which it is I can then focus on correcting it. I've found certain speakers because of their frequency response will really almost over-enhance a certain range whereas others will not.
Some sort of EQ would be good to have whichever route you choose and I really don't think it has anything to do with your soundcard. I hope a future version of HW includes an EQ feature and I think Martin has logged it as a possible add-on some time in the future.
I've got a couple pairs of these and have used them with good results in the past, certainly cheap enough to give them a try.
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/BBE/U ... g8QAvD_BwE
Marc
Re: “EQ” when using speakers
Just a note: St. Max specifically has trumpets that fall off in the treble more than usual, as noted on the SP web site. In that case, it's the organ, not the audio system.