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Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
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Anton Heger

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Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostWed Apr 28, 2010 2:46 am

For those who are able to read Dutch:
www.pknmijdrecht.nl/nl/nieuws.asp?pagin ... menuID=763
With sound examples.

More info about the organ at:
www.library.uu.nl/orgelsinutrecht/m/mij ... 1main.html
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Dutch Brad

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostWed Apr 28, 2010 3:39 am

Which producer is going to issue this organ as that will be the major difference?

The manual stops of this organ are 100% original, although the organ had been expanded several times, none of the original pipes were replaced. The pedal is totally new - Van Vulpen 2001.

This is a Johann Bätz organ (1842), not to be confused with the more famous Johann Hartmann Bätz who built the Evangelical Lutheran organ in Den Haag. There were five different Bätz organ builders in Holland in the 18th and 19th century - all relatives.

Hoofdwerk
Prestant-8
Roerfluit-8
Octaaf-4
Fluit-4
Quint-3
Octaaf-2
Mixtuur III-VI (not III-V as mentioned on the stop itself)
Cornet IV (disc)
Trompet-8

Bovenwerk
Holpijp-8
Roerfluit-4
Salicionaal-4 (Geigen Principal in reality)
Gemshoorn-2

Pedaal
Subbas-16
Octaaf-8
Fagot-16
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Anton Heger

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostWed Apr 28, 2010 4:15 am

Which producer is going to issue this organ as that will be the major difference?

On the website mentioned above they wrote:
Momenteel zijn Johan van der Waal van Dijk en Christian Boogaard druk bezig om materiaal allemaal speelklaar te maken.

The first name: is that the man who recorded so many Lindenberg-CD's (with Bram Beekman and others)?
The second name is known as organist.
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Dutch Brad

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostWed Apr 28, 2010 12:37 pm

Anton Heger wrote:
Which producer is going to issue this organ as that will be the major difference?

On the website mentioned above they wrote:
Momenteel zijn Johan van der Waal van Dijk en Christian Boogaard druk bezig om materiaal allemaal speelklaar te maken.

The first name: is that the man who recorded so many Lindenberg-CD's (with Bram Beekman and others)?
The second name is known as organist.


The Lindenberg CD-producer (who made many excellent recordings) was A. van der Waal. Maybe a relative?
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adri

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostThu Apr 29, 2010 9:57 am

from the website :

De huidige stand van zaken is: current state of affairs:
- alle registers zijn bespeelbaar zolang er gebonden wordt gespeeld all stops are playable as long as one plays in legato style

In de komende tijd worden: soon:
- alle registers ook met snelle nootjes bespeelbaar. Dit vergt een andere verwerking door de computer dan dat er lange noten worden gespeeld all stops can also be played with fast note playing. This requires a different computer processing than with the playing of long notes.

- de tremulant-versies van de registers bespeelbaar tremulant versions of the stops will be made

- de fluctuatie in een computermodel geprogrammeerd. Dit verschijnsel doet zich voor als er met veel registers veel toetsen tegelijk worden bespeeld. De windvoorziening van het orgel kan dan niet alle pijpen tegelijk van voldoende lucht voorzien, waardoor de klank even een beetje 'inzakt'. Dit geeft een levendige klank aan het orgel die ook in de digitale versie te horen zal zijn. the wind fluctuations will be programmed into a computer model. This phenomenon takes place when lots of stops are played at once. The wind supply in this case cannot supply all pipes of sufficient air, and thus the sound will "dip" a little. This provides a very lively sound to the organ which can also be heard in the digital version.
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orgelapeldoorn

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostFri Nov 26, 2010 3:41 pm

What's the current status of this sampleset? Any news?
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Cribo

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostFri Nov 26, 2010 8:05 pm

Thanx for asking. As this is our first experiment in making a sample set for Hauptwerk, it takes a lot of time to discover all the possibilities of the programming part. It is unbelievable how much there is for sample set producers to make a realistic copy of the original instrument. Martin Dyde is a genius!
Right now the multiple release is done so it sounds much better already but we are still struggling with the windmodel. This is so complex that it is hard to make it right, especially as Mijdrecht has an extremely lively wind. It comes very close to the windmodel of Kampen and we are still figuring out how to get there. The set won't be released for this is allright because without a proper windmodel, the sampleset is so different from the original that we think it is somewhat 'irrisponsable' to release it.
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Grant_Youngman

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostFri Nov 26, 2010 11:23 pm

Cribo wrote:The set won't be released for this is allright because without a proper windmodel, the sampleset is so different from the original that we think it is somewhat 'irrisponsable' to release it.


Does this imply that it would be irresponsible for those poor souls among us that live in the US (and thus can't have the wind model no matter how hard you work on it) to purchase the set when it is released :?:
Grant
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ljhutchens

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostSun Nov 28, 2010 9:01 pm

I have a question that I have been wondering about for a long time. Why is there a problem with the wind model in America.? Just a note of background. I am an attorney in California and an organist and have been involved representing smaller companies against a very large organ company who seems to enjoy throwing their considerable weight around and terrorizing the smaller competitors. The large company who does this will remain unnamed but they are very successful and have more money to spend on lawyers. They don't always win but they will spend an unlimited amount of money in legal fees to bury their adversaries whether or not their position is right or wrong. Is this in the ballpark or am I just imagining things? By the way I am not soliciting litigation business, I'm swamped as it is but what is the story? Can the wind model rights be purchased for a specific amount?

Lawrence
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giwro

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostSun Nov 28, 2010 9:47 pm

Lawrence,

I'm afraid you won't get much of an answer about this - we've asked about it over and over. I think since (first Martin) and now Brett politely decline to answer specifics, it's likely that they've already tangled with someone and been "warned" (threatened?)

The good news is that such patent claims *do* have a limited life, so we may see the wind model someday here in the USA once those are no longer in force. I'd imagine that just to be on the safe side Brett chooses to speak very little and only generically about it. You're a lawyer - I'm sure you've advised clients to act in a similar manner for their own good! :mrgreen:

I'm sure if (when?) it becomes financially and legally possible to enable it in the USA that we will be able to enjoy this further realism. Until then we'll just have to respect Brett and Martin's prudent silence on the matter.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
http://www.evensongmusic.net
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Cribo

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostMon Nov 29, 2010 7:03 am

Hi Grant,

I am very sorry to have forgotten about this :evil: fact. As said, without the windmodel, the organ is completely different compaired to the original and some members insist on having it as accurate as possible otherwise they won't hesitate to state here that it just isn't it.
Anyway, this will be our fist attempt and I will be the last to say it will be perfect, I honestly think this is impossible.
I will discuss with 'the team' the possibilty of releasing it without windmodel for those who would like to give it a shot and don't have or don't bother the lack of windmodel.
We keep you posted.
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pat17

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostMon Nov 29, 2010 7:52 am

ljhutchens wrote:I have a question that I have been wondering about for a long time. Why is there a problem with the wind model in America.?


I think you can get some element to answer your query here. :wink:
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ljhutchens

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostMon Nov 29, 2010 7:51 pm

Hi again. I would be willing to contact Rogers' counsel and talk to them about the wind model issue. (If it is Rogers). I would of course need permission from the powers at Hauptwerk but my gut feeling is that the process of wind modeling is used by Allen and Galanti. I have done work for Galanti dealers and I am very familiar with wind modeling on their instruments. My suggestion is that Hauptwerk apply for a patent on their technology for wind modeling which is vastly different than anyone elses. If not, I am willing to bet that a letter should do the trick to whoever believes their position is viable. They might as well patent the idea that "you blow air through a long pipe and it makes noise."
Let me help the Hauptwerk community.(free of charge) By the way my belief that a "kind word and a gun is better than a quiet word alone" would be applicable here.

I realize that this post probably doesn't belong in this section but I am new.
Lawrence
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B. Milan

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostTue Nov 30, 2010 4:05 am

Hello Lawrence,

We do appreciate that US customers would like to have the wind model available. We've never stated any specifics on the subject and other posts on this forum relating to the subject are pure speculation. We would request that you not take it upon yourself to try to inquire further into potential legal aspects, especially without knowing who or why. We've based our decisions on knowledge and advice of professionals and are doing what is deemed best for our business and so that we can continue to offer cutting edge technology at affordable prices for our customers.

We trust that you will still enjoy Hauptwerk and the instruments without this feature.

Thank you for your understanding.
Brett Milan
Owner
MILAN DIGITAL AUDIO

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ljhutchens

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Re: Upcoming: Bätz organ from Mijdrecht

PostTue Nov 30, 2010 8:34 pm

I defer to your wishes. It was only my speculation that the issue involved a federal copyright issue and some organ manufacturer was behind the problem. My apologies and I will not mention it again.

Lawrence
Last edited by ljhutchens on Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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