My first post, so here is a little background.
We have a 1984 2 manual pipe organ of 24 ranks, GT, SW, PD, Antiphonal (floating) running on a Syndyne system from 2008. As opposed to adding a single new rank of pipes (a requested 8' Oboe), which these days is quite a chunk of change, I decided to add Hauptwerk to the organ and map stops to the 7 blank tabs on the console for some much needed variety and color.
HW lives in a storage room on a 2013 MacPro/64/1TB, 6 core 3.5Ghz E5, a MOTU Ultralite MK 5, and the amp is an 8 channel Crown. Since the console is movable, the MIDI interface is a separate (i.e., remote) Syndyne card. We have a dedicated pair of speakers for each division.
At the present moment, we are using the provided St. Anne's, Moseley organ. With its skinny strings, decent oboe, etc., the organists are having a great time with the added versatility. Everything worked as expected 'out of the box' for the most part and has been trouble free for some weeks now.
My question is this: Since HW only allows stops in the Swell to be used on the Swell MIDI tabs, for example, are the stops in HW editable to the point that I can, for instance, edit the GT 8' Trumpet to function as a Swell stop without the use of couplers? If so, how might I go about it? Much appreciation for your time.
Reg Hulsey
MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
- Arthur C. Clarke
- Arthur C. Clarke
Re: MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
Not sure why you say HW only allows stops on the Swell to be used on the Swell MIDI tabs. It's more likely that the MIDI console only sends note on and off from the Swell manual.
HW itself doesn't restrict which MIDI controls can be autodetected (or assigned) to the sampleset's stop controls, nor which MIDI keyboards can be autodetected to the sampleset's divisions.
So you should be able to have those Swell MIDI tabs act on any stops or couplers on St. Anne's, such as the Great Trumpet. But if your Great manual doesn't actually send out MIDI note on and off messages, that keyboard won't play the Great Trumpet even if it's drawn.
A MIDI log on the computer (in HW or another tool) would be helpful for showing you what messages your console actually sends from the MIDI stop tabs and from the keyboards when those stops are on or off. I suspect turning on a Swell MIDI tab enables MIDI note on/off to be sent from the Swell manual only, but a log would determine that.
There may be crude solutions, like autodetecting the same console manual to both the Great and Swell of St. Anne's, effectively merging the divisions, or using a master coupler in HW. You could also use the MIDI tabs as master general pistons (settable) instead of acting on individual stops, for more flexibility.
HW itself doesn't restrict which MIDI controls can be autodetected (or assigned) to the sampleset's stop controls, nor which MIDI keyboards can be autodetected to the sampleset's divisions.
So you should be able to have those Swell MIDI tabs act on any stops or couplers on St. Anne's, such as the Great Trumpet. But if your Great manual doesn't actually send out MIDI note on and off messages, that keyboard won't play the Great Trumpet even if it's drawn.
A MIDI log on the computer (in HW or another tool) would be helpful for showing you what messages your console actually sends from the MIDI stop tabs and from the keyboards when those stops are on or off. I suspect turning on a Swell MIDI tab enables MIDI note on/off to be sent from the Swell manual only, but a log would determine that.
There may be crude solutions, like autodetecting the same console manual to both the Great and Swell of St. Anne's, effectively merging the divisions, or using a master coupler in HW. You could also use the MIDI tabs as master general pistons (settable) instead of acting on individual stops, for more flexibility.
Re: MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
After spending more time on this (church isn't close to me), it is true that any stop will map to any tab on the console regardless of division or function, but it will only play on its 'native' keyboard as found in the HW organ.
My question, more succinctly I hope: Is there a way to change the manual the stop is associated with, and thus will only play from? Say, I'd like to make the SW trumpet native to, or play from, the GT.
Does that make sense?
My question, more succinctly I hope: Is there a way to change the manual the stop is associated with, and thus will only play from? Say, I'd like to make the SW trumpet native to, or play from, the GT.
Does that make sense?
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
- Arthur C. Clarke
- Arthur C. Clarke
Re: MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
You can make the whole HW Great play from your Swell keyboard, but not transfer one stop. Manual assignments and couplers are by whole divisions, not by stop.
There's a very limited possibility: IF your console doesn't send out any MIDI Note On/Off messages when its Swell MIDI tabs are off and does send them when a tab is on -- something you'd have to test thoroughly! -- and you use Organ settings | Advanced MIDI applications | Direct MIDI output (naming from memory) to make the sampleset's Great Trumpet play on the console's Swell keyboard whenever a Swell MIDI tab is on, that might allow for that one stop to play from the Swell without also having it play on the Great. That's a stretch, but it might work if the console does what an old Rodgers I had did with its MIDI couplers. I also think that's a finicky solution that would be easy to break later. (Edited to use your example of GT Tr8 playing on Sw). Of course, that doesn't put the GT Trumpet under Swell expression and basically reducescthe sampleset to one Trumpet.
In general you only move/transmit ranks between divisions by developing a custom organ -- search for CODM -- or unsupported editing of the ODF (not recommending that and it's usually a license violation). CODM is a lot of learning and hard work, and using CODM is blocked by some samplesets, depending on how they are encrypted and some internal parameters. (Was typing this when Martin replied -- sorry for duplication).
I'd look for a Hauptwerk sampleset that has the disposition you want, rather than try to rig something from one that doesn't quite work for your purpose.
There's a very limited possibility: IF your console doesn't send out any MIDI Note On/Off messages when its Swell MIDI tabs are off and does send them when a tab is on -- something you'd have to test thoroughly! -- and you use Organ settings | Advanced MIDI applications | Direct MIDI output (naming from memory) to make the sampleset's Great Trumpet play on the console's Swell keyboard whenever a Swell MIDI tab is on, that might allow for that one stop to play from the Swell without also having it play on the Great. That's a stretch, but it might work if the console does what an old Rodgers I had did with its MIDI couplers. I also think that's a finicky solution that would be easy to break later. (Edited to use your example of GT Tr8 playing on Sw). Of course, that doesn't put the GT Trumpet under Swell expression and basically reducescthe sampleset to one Trumpet.
In general you only move/transmit ranks between divisions by developing a custom organ -- search for CODM -- or unsupported editing of the ODF (not recommending that and it's usually a license violation). CODM is a lot of learning and hard work, and using CODM is blocked by some samplesets, depending on how they are encrypted and some internal parameters. (Was typing this when Martin replied -- sorry for duplication).
I'd look for a Hauptwerk sampleset that has the disposition you want, rather than try to rig something from one that doesn't quite work for your purpose.
Last edited by mnailor on Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
Hello rhulsey,
The sample set's organ definition file (ODF) defines the 'wiring' of the virtual organ, such as which virtual stops control which virtual ranks, and which virtual divisions they play from. It isn't normally/easily possible for you to change that except by creating your own organ definition that references the sample set's samples. The Custom Organ Design Module (CODM) exists for that purpose. Have a look through its documentation on the "Design tools" menu in Hauptwerk. Also, there are some example CODM ODFs that use the St. Anne's sample set's ranks, which you can try loading via "Design tools | Load custom organ ...", and you could look at them in an XML or SQLite editor, and potentially make copies of them and customise them to taste. For default installation locations the XML files can be in:
<OS-user-home-folder>\Hauptwerk\HauptwerkUserData\CustomOrganDefinitions
Alternatively, you could perhaps just use the virtual couplers. The sample set will usually have some of its own, available on its virtual console, but Hauptwerk also has 'master couplers'. (See the "Registration menu: master couplers" section in the main Hauptwerk user guide for those -- pages 139-141 in the current v8.0 version.)
The sample set's organ definition file (ODF) defines the 'wiring' of the virtual organ, such as which virtual stops control which virtual ranks, and which virtual divisions they play from. It isn't normally/easily possible for you to change that except by creating your own organ definition that references the sample set's samples. The Custom Organ Design Module (CODM) exists for that purpose. Have a look through its documentation on the "Design tools" menu in Hauptwerk. Also, there are some example CODM ODFs that use the St. Anne's sample set's ranks, which you can try loading via "Design tools | Load custom organ ...", and you could look at them in an XML or SQLite editor, and potentially make copies of them and customise them to taste. For default installation locations the XML files can be in:
<OS-user-home-folder>\Hauptwerk\HauptwerkUserData\CustomOrganDefinitions
Alternatively, you could perhaps just use the virtual couplers. The sample set will usually have some of its own, available on its virtual console, but Hauptwerk also has 'master couplers'. (See the "Registration menu: master couplers" section in the main Hauptwerk user guide for those -- pages 139-141 in the current v8.0 version.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Re: MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
Thank you, Martin. Just what I was asking for.
mdyde wrote:Hello rhulsey,
The sample set's organ definition file (ODF) defines the 'wiring' of the virtual organ, such as which virtual stops control which virtual ranks, and which virtual divisions they play from. It isn't normally/easily possible for you to change that except by creating your own organ definition that references the sample set's samples. The Custom Organ Design Module (CODM) exists for that purpose. Have a look through its documentation on the "Design tools" menu in Hauptwerk. Also, there are some example CODM ODFs that use the St. Anne's sample set's ranks, which you can try loading via "Design tools | Load custom organ ...", and you could look at them in an XML or SQLite editor, and potentially make copies of them and customise them to taste. For default installation locations the XML files can be in:
<OS-user-home-folder>\Hauptwerk\HauptwerkUserData\CustomOrganDefinitions
Alternatively, you could perhaps just use the virtual couplers. The sample set will usually have some of its own, available on its virtual console, but Hauptwerk also has 'master couplers'. (See the "Registration menu: master couplers" section in the main Hauptwerk user guide for those -- pages 139-141 in the current v8.0 version.)
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
- Arthur C. Clarke
- Arthur C. Clarke
Re: MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
Thanks. Excellent. You're very welcome.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Re: MIDI Division/Stop Assignments
The note messages are always there, stop or no stop.
I think I have all the info I need for now, thanks to Martin's informative reply and your posts here. We will see how this progresses once we move past St. Anne's into something else. Adding 7 or so stops to this otherwise fairly pedestrian instrument has already worked wonders, far more than a single reed stop would have at multiples of the cost - to say nothing of my labor in installation, etc.
Reg
I think I have all the info I need for now, thanks to Martin's informative reply and your posts here. We will see how this progresses once we move past St. Anne's into something else. Adding 7 or so stops to this otherwise fairly pedestrian instrument has already worked wonders, far more than a single reed stop would have at multiples of the cost - to say nothing of my labor in installation, etc.
Reg
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
- Arthur C. Clarke
- Arthur C. Clarke