Advice for CPU

[Tadeusz Kubicki]

Hello, forum members!
I am about to build a computer for use with the Hauptwerk program, and I would greatly appreciate your advice. Based on your expertise, could you help me choose between the Intel Core i9-14900K paired with the ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-E GAMING WIFI II ATX motherboard, or the AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D paired with the Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX rev. 1.2 motherboard? These are high-end processors and quite expensive. I’m also open to other suggestions if you have any. Maybe some suggestions for another processor? As for the RAM, I was planning to install 64 GB.
For context, I am not a professional musician, and I know both processors are more than sufficient for my needs. However, I want to avoid making a decision I might later regret, so your guidance would be invaluable.
Thank you in advance!

[mnailor]

The two have very similar performance benchmarks, so it's hard to say that one is obviously better for Hauptwerk.

I'd look at the AMD 9950X, which outperforms the 7950X3D in most benchmarks. The X3D's gaming advantages aren't useful for Hauptwerk.

On the Intel side, an Ultra 9 285K beats the 14900K in most benchmarks, and generates less heat.

I'd buy a 9950X if I were shopping for a HW computer today.

P.S. 64 GB isn't enough for many modern surround samplesets. I'd look at 128 GB or make sure it has free RAM slots to add more later.

[Tadeusz Kubicki]

Thanks for the inspiring reply.
Greetings, Tadeusz

[IainStinson]

I used the same motherboard. You may find https://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.p ... 97#p158797 useful.

Iain

[Tadeusz Kubicki]

Thanks. Very useful information.
Tadeusz

[mundiglo]

I have a question to the PC experts:

My HW system is running with a total buffer size of 1024 (21 msec latency @ 48kHz) on a i9 9900 CPU @4.27GHz OC/128GB RAM.
Using these setting the CPU runs in overload when I play larger organs like Billerbeck in Tutti and something like a Widor Toccata.
Increasing the buffer helps and with >2048 buffer its getting better, but not solved.
What CPU upgrade could handle such conditions and still keep the latency to <21msec?

Thanks for the advice

Olaf

[IainStinson]

Hello.
Have you carried out some Windows optimisation for audio? In particular, have to disabled the SYSMAIN service?
Is anything else running?
Iain

[mnailor]

I would do *all* the list of Windows optimizations for realtime audio found in the Performance Tuning chapter of the User Guide.

Then after LatencyMon tells you the PC is good for audio without Hauptwerk running:

Adjust your polyphony limit up or down until the HW CPU meter stays in high green or low yellow bars during sustained full organ playing on Billerbeck. That's how much dynamic polyphony your 9900 can handle.

Then decide if that polyphony limit is too low -- if the dropouts of releases and notes is unacceptable. I suspect that will be the case, since my previous PC was a 9900.

If so, a new PC can help only if you tune it properly as above. A powerful PC can get audio glitches because of Windows settings.

If shopping for a PC, a simple way to rule out puny CPUs is to look at the CPU MegaList at passmark.com, sort the list descending by ThreadMark. For Billerbeck I'd want a CPU with at least 4000 ThreadMark and 50000 - 60000 CPUMark performance.

I have a i9-12900K, which handles Billerbeck, Nancy, and San Francisco at 48k sample rate and 256 buffer, or 96k and 1024, with polyphony set to 15k or 20k respectively. That's *adequate*, but I'd recommend a somewhat more powerful CPU. Mine is about 4000 ThreadMark and 40000 CPUMark, which is the minimum for these organs to sound good.

Once you've found some PCs in the right range, use nanoreview.net's CPU comparison to look at more benchmarks to decide between the ones you are considering. Passmark's benchmark's aren't the whole story, but their list is useful to rule out clunkers.

[mundiglo]

Thank you Ian , mnailor,

Windows has been optimized and sysmain is definitely a culprit.
I would not want to limit the polyphony and always keep it high at 15k.
Its also a more general question what CPU Power is sufficient to support the large 6 channel sets with decent latency.
I gather that the i9s from 13 gen upwards should be sufficient.
Also 20msec latency is perfectly acceptable for an organ (in Vienna's St. Stefan cathedral the console is in the lower nave far away from the organ with huge latency, still organists have to cope with it).
Also, I saw that the 15.th gen has issues with DDR5 RAM in all four slots which I would need to for 128GB.

[larason2]

You are right.

20 ms seems to be the threshold at which under that, you won't notice an improvement, so there's no point trying to get under.

It's true some real organs have significant latency, but no one likes it! It's the 9:30 in Newfoundland problem (for those fellow Canadians out there), the music is not in sync with itself. That's never a good thing. Better to avoid if possible.

No matter what, 128 GB of RAM is expensive. DDR5 has significantly increased performance compared to previous generations. It will go down in price over time though.

[mnailor]

Even on a more powerful CPU, you'll still have to use the polyphony limiter on the most demanding samplesets. They'll still glitch if you put the limit at 32k if the organ can push that many voices + releases. (There are some newer server CPUs that should handle that -- ones with sufficient single thread performance -- but that's very expensive.)

If you're happy with 15k polyphony, then something in the performance range I described should work.

With the 9900, you might get 6 - 8k polyphony at 48k/1024 without glitches, but probably no more than that.

[mundiglo]

Thanks folks!